As always, I feel the necessity to argue against the popular opinion.... so here it goes.
The October Revolution was a representation of the true needs of the Russian people. First, before I begin, I would like to make a comparison of the situation to something to which we may all relate. Imagine you are sitting in a room, and a teacher is not teaching properly. (Not pointing out any class in particular, just saying... :0) All of the students want the teacher to teach, but he refuses. Therefore, a single student convinces them to teach themselves. Sure, they may not be following the teacher's instructions and thereby violating their schema of order, but they are getting what they want: education.
The Russian Revolution presents a similar case. Under the Czarist rule, and then that of the provisional government, the common people were neglected, with a poor political stance, and a weak economy as a result of multiple policy changes (1). An example I found was from a speech made by the speaker of the provisional government in October 1917, Alexander Kerensky. I will label this website (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSnovemberR.htm) as source 5: "The policy of the Bolsheviki is demagogic and criminal, in their exploitation of the popular discontent. But there is a whole series of popular demands which have received no satisfaction up to now. The question of peace, land, and the democratization of the army ought to be stated in such a fashion that no soldier, peasant, or worker would have the least doubt that our Government is attempting, firmly and infallibly, to solve them. " Sorry for the length, but I felt that cutting would detract from the message. Anyway, does this seem like something that a stable government with satisfied people would say? No, it does not. The provisional government was failing, and the leaders new this was happening. They dismissed the Bolsheviks because they recognized that someone had the ability to seize power. However, why does this matter?
If the provisional government recognized the Bolsheviks as a threat to democracy, they obviously knew that there would be a reason for the people supporting such a "travesty" What I mean is, we learned that the Bolsheviks, au contraire to the name, were actually the minority (1). Lenin must have been offering the people something good, if the provisional government thought that the Bolsheviks had the ability to seize power. What was that advantage? Meeting the needs of the Russian people.
"Confiscation of private banks," "abolition of the police, army, and bureaucracy," were some of the plans of Lenin to satisfy the needs of the people. (4, i can't remember which source the April Theses are)It could be argued that these were merely attempts to get him into power, but I firmly believe that though Lenin is accused of abusing the power later, he really had the needs of the Russians in mind. A point to consider would be that he was very proud of his country; while in Switzerland, he still had the needs of his people in mind (1). Thus, if he loved his country so, why would he use violent tactics on the people whom he so loved? Something just doesn't add up...
Let's face it, the provisional government was sucking big time, and Lenin saw the chance to seize power. Yes, I admit this, as always, that there are points that both I, a supporter of the fact that the October Revolution was a representation of the needs of the Russian people, and pretty much everyone else, supporters of the fact that it was a coup d'etat by an extremist group, can agree upon. Lenin took the failures of another group, and by giving the people what they wanted and deserved, things such as a stable government, seizing land from the Bourgeoisie, and offering bread and peace (1) he successfully made a difference.
I feel as if I've been writing my T.o.K. essay for too long, for I am tempted to ask the question, "Are wrong acts done in the name of good still wholesome?" I think so,... Let's look at the classroom scenario one more time. Sure, Lenin may have hit the kids who weren't cooperating and made them cry, stolen their cookies even, but he did it to protect the peace. in the information packet, it talked about the acts he did in secrecy, such as creating the Cheka (3) As malicious as this sounds, do even the best nations in the world have to stop counter-productive acts? I also usually make a comparison to the United States, so here it goes. Look at the Patriot Act after 9/11; it violates some civil liberties and is thereby controversial, but does is it not done by means of protecting us? The Cheka had three goals (3)
1)Repress/liquidate counterrevolution
2) Hand over for trial all counterrevolutionaries and combat them
3)The Cheka carries out all preliminary investigation
This would be a good arguing point for most as the deception of Lenin, however, I see it differently. This mirrors anti-terrorist acts by countries of which we may relate today! Would it make any sense to finally give the people what they want, only to not enforce the stability you promised by not stamping-out revolutionaries? Keep the peace at all costs. Ironic statement, but it's true. Instability is not a thing the Russians needed.
Lenin represented the true needs of the Russian people. His April Theses, patriotism, and anti-counter-revolutionary acts once in office support that he initially had the best plan for Russia. After that, well, I won't go into that.... He was a leader, none the less, who did what he could to protect his people, in the form of an autocracy.
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Joshua Elmore,
ReplyDeleteAhh buddy! I have many points to make here. For starters, Lenin is the worst thing that could have ever happened to Russia as far as government is concerned. He walked into an unstable government. He is NOTHING good for the government. Although he had a good strategy to win the people over, his intentions were not good in the end. HE WANTED POWER BUT NEVER FULLY MADE CLEAR WHAT HE WOULD DO WITH THAT POWER. And further more, who would turn an unstable government over to the people. They need a leader who is doing what's best for the country and not for themselves. And that is what Lenin did not have any intentions of doing. Did you think about the after effects of what instability could do? And also WHAT LENIN DID TO ACHIEVE HIS POWER. Josh, Lenin was a sneaky man, and although you say that he did what he could to protect his people?! Think about this, what would America be like if our President decided that he would do NOTHING to better the country, but sit in office and have the finest of dinner their is AND STILL HOLD POWER. Americans would be ticked! And that's exactly what Lenin did. Can you tell me more specifically HOW he tried the best he could to protect his people? Or clarify?
HIGH FIVE JOSH. EXTRA SUPER MEGA HIGH FIVE.
ReplyDeleteDashiaaaa I am so sorry but I am about to punch you full of holes. (Verbally anyway.)
Point A!
Let's clarify what you mean by saying he was the worst thing to happen to Russia....How thoroughly have you researched what Ivan the Terrible or any other early tsar did to the Russian people? I'm sorry but I didn't see enough solid evidence in our response to get the reason for your perspective. Be open minded and break out of the 'LENIN BAD' mind frame a lot of us were raised to have. Talk smack about Stalin if you please, but I can't agree with you on Lenin.
Point B!
Your example about turning the government to the people...love muffin Lenin did the opposite. It was his eventual goal, but when he first seized power he saw the need to lead Russia with what some call an iron fist. He said 'The goal of socialism is always communism.' And that is what he was working towards. He built a SOCIALIST government, where he had a lot of power to fulfill needs of Russians so that eventually the Motherland would evolve to a communist nation. Communism can only happen in certain conditions, and that is what he was striving for by taking MORE control over the government, not turning it over to the workers and peasants of Russia, because he knew in their current state they would drive Russia (more thoroughly) into the ground. (Or snow, whichever ;])Your example using America made me giggle though. Understand how Russia works...it's on the other end of the spectrum from us, even if that example truly showed Lenin's aims. And, again, I'm sorry but it doesn't. There is ONE United States, but there are MANY Russias. The US is predictable, Russia isn't. (Unless it comes to vodka and snow. Those can be counted upon.)
Point C!
Don't call Lenin a sneaky man, dochenka. He was honest in what he would give the people...in what he could give. He was, in my opinion, a more honest politician for that. Think of other men who have risen to power spewing lies. Lenin knew better than to give flowery, empty promises. How is that sneaky? Pochemu 'sneaky man'?
Sorry that I can't agree with you :/
-high five Josh again-
Spasibo, dochenkas. Do svidania!
Josh, I am honestly quite disappointed right now so you know. I was hoping to get a little heated debate on yours, but I actually AGREE with you....ruined my plan. =D Good job. I loved your little TOK moment. "Are wrong acts done in the name of good still wholesome?" I'll be a nerd and quote wicked with "No good deed goes unpunished" and also by saying "Sure I meant well, well look at what well meant did" I COULD pull some more quotes like "...was I really seeking good, or just seeking attention?" but why would I want to do that? ;)But I think good intentions with wrong execution is still a good intention, and still deserves SOME karma points.
ReplyDeleteNow, on to Dashia...Kayla covered a lot, but I just have a few to hit. When you say "HE WANTED POWER BUT NEVER FULLY MADE CLEAR WHAT HE WOULD DO WITH THAT POWER" (quite visciously I might add)did you think to look at the ENTIRE SOURCE we have dedicated to his plan with the power. Here's a hint, it is source number 4 and it was PUBLISHED as his April Theses. I believe that gives 10 points on what he'd do with power.
And you're talking about how he was so terrible and mean and all this, and even TRIED comparing it to America. I have a quick little thing to bring up, back from last unit. Woodrow Wilson (president of the USA around this time period) established the Espionage & Sedition acts. This was banning Americans from speaking A) in their native tounges and B) speaking out against the war. HMMM....this makes me think of the Cheka that Lenin was known to be so terrible for...But I don't hear you talking terribly about W.Wilson. You tried comparing Russia THEN to USA NOW...but if you compare what you SHOULD be which is them BOTH from THEM, then you would see that they aren't as different as you may think. Josh, I am honestly quite disappointed right now. I really hope you know this. This is my 3rd comment because I was hoping to get a little heated debate on yours, but I actually AGREE with you....ruined my plan. =D But yeah. Good job. I loved your little TOK moment. "Are wrong acts done in the name of good still wholesome?" I'm going to be a nerd and quote wicked with "No good deed goes unpunished" and also by saying "Sure I meant well, well look at what well meant did" I COULD pull some more quotes like "...was I really seeking good, or just seeking attention?" but why would I want to do that? ;)But I think good intentions with wrong execution is still a good intention, and still deserves SOME karma points.
Now, on to Dashia...Kayla covered a lot, but I just have a few to hit. When you say "HE WANTED POWER BUT NEVER FULLY MADE CLEAR WHAT HE WOULD DO WITH THAT POWER" (quite visciously I might add)did you think to look at the ENTIRE SOURCE we have dedicated to his plan with the power. Here's a hint, it is source number 4 and it was PUBLISHED as his April Theses. I believe that gives 10 points on what he'd do with power.
And you're talking about how he was so terrible and mean and all this, and even TRIED comparing it to America. I have a quick little thing to bring up, back from last unit. Woodrow Wilson (president of the USA around this time period) established the Espionage & Sedition acts. This was banning Americans from speaking A) in their native tounges and B) speaking out against the war. HMMM....this makes me think of the Cheka that Lenin was known to be so terrible for...But I don't hear you talking terribly about W.Wilson. You tried comparing Russia THEN to USA NOW...but if you compare what you SHOULD be which is them BOTH from THEM, then you would see that they aren't as different as you may think.
Though Josh is correct that the Revolution does show the aims of the people, I really think that this mainly applies before the revolution occurred. After the revolution, we start to see that Lenin implements rules and policies that don't necessarily sit well with the people, such as the removal of freedom of press. In fact, after a while, Lenin is forced to start implementing scare tactics to keep the people under control, tactics that would include concentration camps and the Cheka.
ReplyDeleteKayla, even though Lenin didn't really trick the people, and did pretty much give them what they asked for, it was a different image then they planned it to be. The main argument they had against the provisional government was that the Provisional Government wasn't an elected body (a reason that the Soviets would be the more popular part of the February Revolution government), and that they weren't getting their rights soon enough. Lenin didn't allow either. After all, once someone is given an inch (in this case, Peace, Land, and Bread), they take the mile (more rights, ability to elect the people in government), and it wasn't looking like that would happen under Lenin's watchful eye.
Josh, I don't quite follow your point. In your post, you question Lenin's violent tactics, yet say the October Revolution was a true representation of the wants of the people of Russia. So, are you saying that the people of Russia wanted to be detained and murdered? What do you see that exemplifies what the people wanted in that?
ReplyDeleteYou also say that Lenin hit kids, made them cry, and stole their cookies, but did these things in the name of peace. How on earth does this promote or protect peace? I understand your point about how most countries today protect their people by preventing counter-productive acts. However, as source 3 states, the Russian Cheka were merciless to enemies and outright murdered people in the streets (3). The Cheka weren’t so much a method of prevention as they were a method of destruction; Lenin wanted to see his opposition destroyed out of hatred and jealousy. Since these tactics aren’t peaceful themselves, how do they create and protect peace?
I believe Lenin's use of violence only further angered the people of Russia, causing them to revolt against him and the Bolsheviks. They would not stand for a leader who neglected their needs and wants and treated his people the way Lenin did. If you say Lenin created and protected peace as well as gave the people what they wanted, then why did the people of Russia stand up against him?
Dashia: I fail to see the *evidence* that supports your theory. I have given plenty, from nearly every source we have, but you have given none. "An arugment is only as good as the evidence that supports it."
ReplyDeleteKayla: Wooh! I love you Russian sister! :D
Chelsea: Aww haha, sorry I spoiled your fun! ;D And, it was fun working with you today!
Araam: I agree; in my post, I didn't exactly clarify, but I meant that this occured before the war. Hence the little joke at the end, "After that, well, I won't go into that..." As always, I am appreciative of your opinion! :D
Sarah: Oops! I was writing this comment while you published your response, so I didn't see it. How rude on my part! Anyway, I didn't go into detail about it, but I feel free here to go in deeper about my opinion. I used the class scenario to demonstrate how violence may be justified. Sure, the kids may have cried at having their cookies stolen, but is this better than that one little jerk kid hitting everyone else and stealing their cookies? Sometimes, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. As general and cliched(I wish I had that accented e,... darn you French people!)as it sounds, it's the truth. I do not believe his true intentions were to use the Cheka to murder so much, they simply went rampant with the power they had been given. I think Araam said it best when he said, "You give them an inch, and they take a mile." People abuse power, and it is in my opinion that in this case, the Cheka abused its power given by Lenin, but I still do not see Lenin as the chief culprit.
ReplyDelete(as always, these do not count as my response posts Coach Belk)
So what you’re saying is that the Cheka, the Red Army, and internment camps, along with the restriction of the freedom of speech, all were positive things in Lenin's reign? I can't agree with this at all. I have to disagree with the idea that the Cheka was simply let loose and that Lenin truly loved his people, in source 3 on page 48 it clearly says "He never had a second thought about giving the secret police the upper hand over the rights of the citizens. On the contrary, he invariably wanted more rather than less terror." And this is the man that supposedly loved his people and had their best interests at heart? No, he had the best interests if the Bolshevik party at heart, the Russian people were simply terrorized into submission. He took advantage of a fledgling Provisional Government to assume power. His positive changes were only made to keep his power, not help the people. If he were keeping the people's interests at heart he would never have ordered his soldiers to fire on protestors? (pg 48 source 3)His takeover in the October Revolution was his radical party assuming command not helping the Russian people. It also says in source 3 on page 52 "Lenin had long advocated terror and itched to get it started." I cannot accept that the radical mass murderer that he was truly cared about his people that neither elected him or supported him. You said in your post "Thus, if he loved his country so, why would he use violent tactics on the people whom he so loved? Something just doesn't add up..." You’re exactly right; he didn't love his country end of story. I completely agree with you Dashia, I just wanted to provide the “evidence” that you apparently left out.
ReplyDeleteI already this in response to your comment on my post, Rob, but I'll say it again to reiterate:
ReplyDeleteThe job has to be done somehow. The bigger picture, Rob. The bigger picture!
Josh has become an honorary Russian. Be proud, Josh! :) Chelsea can come too. WOO~!
Oh! And Araam!
ReplyDeleteTo be philosophical:
When is it ever how we expect it to be?
Take that however you'd like. ;)
And this is most unladylike, but mehh.
the PG was a group of pansies. Complete wusses. I'm sorry.
EoS.